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Freelance writing - is it ethical (from writer's perspective)?


Researcher 8 | 317  
Jun 07, 2009 | #1
Is freelance writing ethical? Almost everyone here is discussing about unethical behavior of essay writing companies however, the question still arises that whether we freelancer writers are doing the ethical work also?
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 07, 2009 | #2
There is nothing wrong with freelance writing in general. Freelance writing means that the writer works at his/her leisure. One could write for blogs, websites, magazines, newspapers, e-zines, electronic papers, journals and so on. There could be some debate on the ethical aspects of helping students with their homework providing them with samples or ready-to-turn-in essays.

I personally believe it is not right. The whole education system is commercial and corrupt too :)
pheelyks  
Jun 07, 2009 | #3
It's unethical to turn in work as your own when you didn't have a hand in writing it. This is why it is against every academic institution's policies. What I do is ghostwriting--I sell my creative product to a company that then owns the copyrights. I do not advertise or in any way encourage students to cheat, and in fact the company I work for legally prohibits such behavior.

If a student uses my work for an unethical purpose, that is not my problem. That would be like blaming the manufacturer of a pain killer used by cancer patients for kids (or adults) using them to get high.

A touch disingenuous? Perhaps, but I sleep at night.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 07, 2009 | #4
May I ask you where you work?
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 07, 2009 | #5
My educated guess is that pheelyks works ET.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 07, 2009 | #6
Does he? If he does then he is noble, indeed. We all know that students who intend to submit purchased papers from ET as their own should think twice before doing so as the company does strongly prohibit submission of their products for academic credit and will give up students who do so when questioned by proper authorities in the same way that The Paper Store Enterprises, another genuinely American company gave up one of their clients to academic authorities to escape a lawsuit as narrated in this bulletin below:

eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/index.cfm?i=31843&CFID=8419205&CFTOKEN=27456135

Students should be aware that buying from companies such as ET is fine so long as they do not submit what they bought for academic credit. Any material taken directly or paraphrased from works bought from ET should be properly cited in order to avoid being questioned by academic authorities and facing possible suspension or expulsion. The reason why ET is this strict in upholding its regulations which are in line with relevant U.S. laws on academic fraud is because they are physically based in the U.S. and can easily be held accountable by the courts.
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 08, 2009 | #7
Does he?

Yes I suppose, there is a writer by that name at ET. I may be wrong though.
chacha420 2 | 82  
Jun 08, 2009 | #8
physically based in the U.S. and can easily be held accountable by the courts.

Paypal and Amazon have now physical presence but they are still working... that is the beauty of internet. Being a non-american or british does not mean you are unethical... perhaps the biggest frauds have been originated from US.... example Ponzi Scam, Enron, Worldcom etc...

Freelance writing is ethical because it has provided students a new and unique way of understanding their own weaknesses. Under a traditional education system, a teacher would come and hand over you an assignment with instructions which may be difficult to comprehend for each student therefore by leveraging the knowledge and skills of others, students can actually understand their weaknesses and work on them.

now

no
pheelyks  
Jun 08, 2009 | #9
Where I work is largely (or entirely) irrelevant to the question of ethical practices--I work for several companies, some of them more legitimate than others. Not all include the type of disclaimer I mentioned above, which is one of the reasons I consider such foreign companies more unethical (offering crap for basement prices doesn't count as fair business, peace).

In addition, there are no state or federal laws that I am aware of (and I have checked, though not rigorously) regarding academic dishonesty. Most (if not all) academic institutions have strict policies against plagiarism, but if "Writer" creates an essay that "Student" turns in with "Writer's" knowledge, this isn't a copyright issue--it is not a matter of law, but school policy. The law is only concerned when a creative product is used without the knowledge and consent of the creator.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 08, 2009 | #10
"According to Smith, 17 states--including Massachusetts--have made itillegal to sell research material knowing or having reason to believe that it will be submitted for academic credit."

'nuff said?

Not all include the type of disclaimer I mentioned above, which is one of the reasons I consider such foreign companies more unethical (offering crap for basement prices doesn't count as fair business, peace).

I work for a foreign company (essaywriters.net) but I only take orders that pay at least $10/page (or $8/slide for .ppt presentations). It may not be as high as what "legitimate" companies like ET supposedly pay their writers but in my country, US$10 is much more than the daily minimum wage. Plus, I can command even more than double that rate at essaybay. You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out how well-paid I am and I do provide my clients with top quality work. I won't say that my employers are saints because they simply aren't but your generalization that foreign writers working for foreign companies provide substandard work is just plain false.
pheelyks  
Jun 08, 2009 | #11
I never made generalizations about foreign writers, EW, and I understand that $10 is a lot of money for you. It's a cheeseburger for me. The fact that foreign companies are willing to pay so low means that they do not care about the quality of the work their writers produced. Having worked for several foreign companies and seen the insane amount of rewrite requests and the deplorable work of many (though not all) of the writers they CHOOSE TO HIRE, I do not feel I am out of line in calling these companies unethical.

And, by the way, the article you linked to is about Boston University LOSING their suit against essay writing companies, and your only source for this info is a lawyer working for Boston U. Show me the actual laws--if they exist, they're online somewhere. Because I'm obviously not as well paid as you (in real terms, at least), I don't have as much time to waste on unpaid research and griping.
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 08, 2009 | #12
I am a passionate researcher, I do it even for free :D
law.justia.com/california/codes/edc/66400-66406.html

California Education Code Sections 66400-66406 CHAPTER 6. ACADEMIC MATERIALS].

66400. No person shall prepare, offer to prepare, cause to be
prepared, sell, or otherwise distribute any term paper, thesis,
dissertation, or other written material for another person, for a fee
or other compensation, with the knowledge, or under circumstances in
which he should reasonably have known, that such term paper, thesis,
dissertation, or other written material is to be submitted by any
other person for academic credit at any public or private college,
university, or other institution of higher learning in this state.

66401. No person shall make or disseminate, with the intent to
induce any other person to enter into any obligation relating
thereto, any statement, written or oral, that he will prepare, cause
to be prepared, sell, or otherwise distribute any term paper, thesis,
dissertation, or other written material, for a fee or other
compensation, for or on behalf of any person who has been assigned
the written preparation of such term paper, thesis, dissertation, or
other written material for academic credit at any public or private
college, university, or other institution of higher learning in this
state.

OP Researcher 8 | 317  
Jun 08, 2009 | #13
I am a passionate researcher, I do it even for free

The laws you have mentioned are just state laws and may be not valid for other states or even countries. The issue is how come companies which claim to be legit register themselves with authorities despite such laws?
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 08, 2009 | #14
Show me the actual laws--if they exist,

I posted California State laws in response to pheelyks' request. As mentioned by the BU's lawyer about 17states have such laws.

how come companies which claim to be legit register themselves with authorities despite such laws?

They register in states where there is no legislation that covers this subject.

NY probably does not have such laws. That is why BU had to approach the Federal Court

And UK also has no specific legislation in this regard. Many of the legit companies are based in the UK.
pheelyks  
Jun 08, 2009 | #15
Humble-

Interesting...I notice there's no provision against buying papers, which is similar to drug laws (i.e. selling is illegal, buying technically isn't). Is this suggesting that the two are equitable?

Given the tone that often develops in this forum, I feel I should add that I mean no animosity here, but am sincerely curious.
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 08, 2009 | #16
pheelyks

I am not an expert on this issue, however, I will share my observation.

66400. No person shall prepare, offer to prepare, cause to be
prepared
, sell, or otherwise distribute any term paper, thesis,
dissertation,
That should cover the buyer, at least the buyer of a custom written thing.

This particular text I posted is from California Law, other states may have different laws.

Though it is my profession, I personally believe it is wrong to sell term papers. I would share some strategic insights based on my experience and judgment. If anyone is in problem in the next 5 years it is the legit companies. The more open and legit we try to be the more attention we attract from the schools and authorities. Many companies will have to relocate to other states as more states adopt these laws. It is more likely that ET, not EW, will have to close business or relocate to another state or even another country.

This industry will have to go anonymous, they can ban and block sites but this industry will continue to work at personal level, just the way it used to be in the 70's :D

Websites will keep coming up and they may force Google to remove all such sites. It is also likely that schools force the legit companies to give them, or third parties such as turnitin, access to their databases to make the process transparent and curb cheating. You may also hear the term 'Term Paper Mafia'. The possibilities are many.

We should all think about moving to safer plains :D
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 08, 2009 | #17
I never made generalizations about foreign writers, EW, and I understand that $10 is a lot of money for you.

See this statement shows that you still don't understand. Foreign companies pay foreign writers lower rates than "legit" companies do because foreign companies offer lower rates to clients, something that American companies cannot do which therefore gives foreign companies a strong competitive advantage. Foreign companies can afford to do this since like you said, $10 is big money for me already. You can buy a cheeseburger with $10, I can buy about 30 of them. Can you see the economic logic behind all this now?

I never made generalizations about foreign writers, EW

When you say that foreign companies generally churn out inferior work, isn't this what you're generalizing?

And, by the way, the article you linked to is about Boston University LOSING their suit against essay writing companies, and your only source for this info is a lawyer working for Boston U.

Yes Boston lost but not before the company who won gave up one student who submitted paper bought from the "legit" company for credit. The point is that these companies can and do give up students when mandated to do so during a lawsuit. That students could be ANYONE and so students should stay away from "legit" companies if they intend to submit the work that they buy as their own unless they want to risk getting expelled or worse.

I am a passionate researcher, I do it even for free :D

Cool.

I would share some strategic insights based on my experience and judgment. If anyone is in problem in the next 5 years it is the legit companies.

In the words of the fabled Michelangelo (the turtle, not the artist), "Exactamundo Compadre!"

Hey pheelyks, I think that the others would agree that we foreign writers who post regularly on this forum also do not wish to build any animosity against you. I personally just don't like it when a person generalizes that foreign companies who hire foreign writers are all scamming pieces of crap because they're not.
peace 1 | 6  
Jun 08, 2009 | #18
Presidents (including the US president) don't write their own speeches or other documents but 99.9% people think the president wrote that speech (it's also called "presidential speech"). Should they put him on trial too, I guess some would think so.

Is homework help legal? Why focus on term papers since if anything, any tutoring or homework help services do the same and more?
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 08, 2009 | #19
Errr.. do presidents earn academic degrees based on their speeches? o.O
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 08, 2009 | #20
Presidents (including the US president) don't write their own speeches or other documents but 99.9% people think the president wrote that speech (it's also called "presidential speech"). Should they put him on trial too, I guess some would think so.

They are not expected to write their own speeches or even letters and agreements that they sign. Students are expected to do their own work. Most universities requires you to sign a declaration that the work being submitted is solely based on your own effort without any collaboration and so on.

At least I am not debating here, just presenting facts and discussing how things are and will be.

If you get a chance to appear before a judge in a state where term paper writing is illegal your arguments would not be of any use because the statute clearly prohibits the act.

So if you need to do that debate and defend term paper writing go to the relevant forum where legislation is done.

Term paper writing is the livelihood of most people on this forum who are law abiding as well (so far) :D but the fact remains what is wrong is wrong.
peace 1 | 6  
Jun 08, 2009 | #21
do presidents earn academic degrees based on their speeches?

Much worse - they get people's votes based on their speeches.

Students are expected to do their own work.

Of course they are. Do essay service representative appear at school for the student with a fake ID and take exams for them? I think not. What you do with a knife you bought in your local store is your business (and your problem if you try to do something illegal with it). Just because you bought a knife or a term paper does not make it illegal (and never will because that would make no sense and knife manufacturers should be worried then too).
pheelyks  
Jun 08, 2009 | #22
Not being a forum pro, I don't know how to do the nifty quote boxes, but in response to EWs statement: "Foreign companies pay foreign writers lower rates than "legit" companies do because foreign companies offer lower rates to clients, something that American companies cannot do which therefore gives foreign companies a strong competitive advantage. Foreign companies can afford to do this since like you said, $10 is big money for me already. You can buy a cheeseburger with $10, I can buy about 30 of them. Can you see the economic logic behind all this now?"

I've understood the economic logic of this for some time--things have to be cheaper in countries with lower wages, meaning that real wages are increased in poorer countries when absolute pay is equal (the $10 worth of cheeseburger(s) scenario). This does not mean that this is why foreign companies charge--or pay--less. American/UK companies and writers could not afford to operate at the same rates (I would make more making the cheeseburgers than working for Research Writing Center, for example).

However, foreign companies would certainly charge their customers more--and possibly pay their writers less--if they could get away with it. If the quality of papers was equal, they would raise their prices and thus their profit margins, enabling them to expand. Price is their only advantage, but you generally get what you pay for. If quality was equal, legitimate companies (which I will still refrain from putting in quotes) would have a hard time keeping business charging twice as much as some of the foreign companies.

In addition, as I said before, I have worked for several sites. This has given me the opportunity to review many other writers' work for rewrite requests. This has proven to me that these companies (at least the ones I have worked for) regularly hire people who would have trouble writing a paper worthy of a sixth-grader in English. They might be very intelligent, but they do not know the language and the company takes customers' money for their papers anyway. If it was a limited occurrence, I could understand, but their persistent employment of English writers without the skills or knowledge to fulfill the job tells me that they don't care, which makes them a very thin step away from frauds in my book.

Whew. I've been having issues with one such company (UVOCorp, which operates as customwritings as well as several other sites; I'm sure they're all over this forum) currently, so I'm a little worked up. Again, I mean no disrespect to foreign writers, or to legitimate foreign companies (should anyone ever show me one that exists). But in my experience, they treat their writers and customers a lot worse than US/UK-based enterprises.

Peace, no offense, but I think you have some things to learn about the democratic process, and speechwriting. Try watching "The West Wing" (no, I'm not confusing fact with fiction, but the writing is brilliant and it does give a good look at the way speeches are created, if you find the right episodes...there's even one where someone plagiarizes a speech and gets away with it). Accusing the president of plagiarism is like accusing a news anchor of it for reading someone else's news reports every night.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 08, 2009 | #23
Much worse - they get people's votes based on their speeches.

Riiight... I'm betting that you don't exactly live in the U.S.

Not being a forum pro, I don't know how to do the nifty quote boxes,

There's a quote button that you can click after selecting the block of text to be quoted. The button is found at the bottom of every post.

If quality was equal, legitimate companies (which I will still refrain from putting in quotes) would have a hard time keeping business charging twice as much as some of the foreign companies.

Why do you think WritersBeware and the others before her were ever created (if you aren't familiar with WB, feel free to use the search function to read on some of her posts)? The American companies are suffering from the rise of foreign operations which have taken away and continue to take away a significant portion of the market from them. Sure, such foreign companies do play dirty by masquerading as American companies themselves but hey, does it matter to students if they get the same quality of work anyway?

But in my experience, they treat their writers and customers a lot worse than US/UK-based enterprises.

Here's a question for you, do these US/UK based enterprises that you're talking about hire foreign writers? :p
WritersBeware  
Jun 09, 2009 | #24
Does he? If he does then he is noble, indeed. We all know that students who intend to submit purchased papers from ET as their own should think twice before doing so as the company does strongly prohibit submission of their products for academic credit and will give up students who do so when questioned by proper authorities in the same way that The Paper Store Enterprises, another genuinely American company gave up one of their clients to academic authorities to escape a lawsuit as narrated in this bulletin below

Mod, please stop EW_writer from directly violating the US Federal Lanham Act by engaging in repeated, intentional defamation against ET and other companies with which he commercially competes from his hut in Burundi. I have already proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that EW_writer is a lying piece of trash on this issue by clearly explaining why he is 100% wrong. He fails to mention that that case originated about 12 years ago, directly leading to legitimate companies taking MUCH stronger actions to protect ALL customers' identities, including automatically deleting every customer's order information within a few days. I have already presented this and other information to prove his claims BASELESS and FALSE. Once someone presents irrefutable evidence that a claim is WRONG and/or UNTRUTHFUL, it should not be allowed to be republished. Make no mistake about it-EW_writer is using zurnal24.info as a device through which to defame his legitimate competition because he is a low-life coward. Do not let his underhanded, illegal tactics harm this site. The way he looks at it-only zurnal24.info can be legally harmed, not him.

"According to Smith, 17 states--including Massachusetts--have made it illegal to sell research material knowing or having reason to believe that it will be submitted for academic credit."

'nuff said?

Please educate yourself. Why do you insist on playing the fool over and over again? You're pathetic.

The quoted laws in question, which EW_writer would falsely lead people to believe have been posted here as the result of HIS knowledge and/or research, absolutely do NOT outlaw the provision of example research services (if that were the case, Cliff's Notes would be illegal, and sure as HELL wouldn't be sold in COLLEGE BOOKSTORES, as they not only contain analysis and criticism, but often SAMPLE ESSAYS). I have mentioned these laws COUNTLESS times. What this ignoramus does not understand-as an overseas criminal who does not at all respect or abide by US laws-is that those very laws contain specific language that makes a company's provision of example research material 100% legal. What is illegal is for a company to guarantee grades, offer a pricing plan based on would-be grades, or advertise/condone turning in the papers for academic credit. I challenge the moron to debate me on these FACTS. PREDICTION-he can't and won't challenge me on the facts because he is a CRIMINAL and a LIAR. He peddles lies and propaganda, not truth or honesty.
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 09, 2009 | #25
case originated about 12 years ago, directly leading to legitimate companies taking MUCH stronger actions to protect ALL customers' identities, including automatically deleting every customer's order information within a few days.

That's nice. I think all those 7 or 8 were not genuine customers. I may be wrong, but that is what may have been done to give BU Lawyer a shutup call and get out of the mess. It is simply unbelievable that 7 referenced the work :D
WritersBeware  
Jun 09, 2009 | #26
It is more likely that ET, not EW, will have to close business or relocate to another state or even another country.

Sorry, but you're absolutely incorrect. essaywriters.net's (Universal Research's) many fake, "corporate offices" are virtual offices in the US. Their articles of incorporation are based on "US" addresses. Any investigation by any government or legal party would indicate that Universal Research is a "US" company. Because the owners of EssayWriters'net are liars who falsely claim to be based in the US but actually CONDUCT (dirty) BUSINESS in the US, Universal Research will be subject to American laws, subpoenas, and jurisdiction. The FACT that they are physically located in Ukraine makes NO DIFFERENCE to American courts. Indeed, once the judge is presented with some of the abundant evidence of corporate fraud and fake addresses that Universal Research from Ukraine advertises in order to unfairly compete with legitimate companies in the US, the judge will have ABSOLUTELY NO MERCY on them. As evidenced by legal precedent in 2008, the owners of a fraudulent essay company in Pakistan (or Ukraine) may be able to avoid monetary judgement because of jurisdiction barriers, but their SITES (which is all they really care about) absolutely WILL be banned by all search engines, WILL be banned by all advertising outlets, and the ownership of which WILL be transferred to the opposing party. When faced with a lawsuit and/or subpoena, what do you think Universal Research will do first?

a. hide all of its customers' information, despite the demands of a US Federal Court, thereby forfeiting ownership of all of its Web sites by default judgment;

b. hand over the information in the blink of an eye.

You guessed it-B!

EW_writer, you lose-for the 859th time.

That's nice. I think all those 7 or 8 were not genuine customers.

Wrong. Why don't you just read the case files instead of posting falsities?

I may be wrong

Yes, you are very much wrong.

It is simply unbelievable that 7 referenced the work

I'm sorry that FACT is unbelievable to you. You do realize that BU desperately WANTED more of the students to have cheated in order to strengthen its case, don't you? BU lost the case largely because the overwhelming majority of students who bought papers did NOT cheat, and the court DISMISSED the case.

Humble, as for your predilection for selective quoting, please read the ENTIRE law a tad more closely:

"As used in this chapter, 'prepare' means to put into condition for intended use. 'Prepare' does not include the mere typing or assembling of papers, nor the mere furnishing of information or research."

End of story.

Foreign companies pay foreign writers lower rates than "legit" companies do because foreign companies offer lower rates to clients, something that American companies cannot do which therefore gives foreign companies a strong competitive advantage.

Typed liked a fork-tongued fraudster-no surprise. Again, what he conveniently does not mention is the FACT that the vast majority of foreign sites blatantly LIE about their location, writers' qualifications, legal jurisdiction, native language, etc. WHY? As EW_writer has been left with no choice but to OPENLY ADMIT, lying about being "American" fools American customers into ordering from them. Do customers have the same protections? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Yes, customers pay less, but they get ZERO legal protections (despite what the fraudsters claim) and commonly UNprofessional, UNqualified, ESL product.

You don't have to be a math whiz to figure out how well-paid I am

This is 100% of the reason why EW_writer spends so much time in this forum-dirty money. That's what it's all about for this shameless crook.

Just because you bought a knife or a term paper does not make it illegal (and never will because that would make no sense and knife manufacturers should be worried then too).

Right.

In addition, as I said before, I have worked for several sites.

Pheelyks, you will quickly discover, as did OxbridgeResearchers, that truth and facts mean nothing to crooks like EW_writer, whose only goal in posting here is to maintain and defend fraudulent activity, no matter how often they get pummeled and embarrassed.

Why do you think WritersBeware and the others before her were ever created (if you aren't familiar with WB, feel free to use the search function to read on some of her posts)?

Any proof, crook? As usual, nope. You're the master of false accusations.

Pheelyks, please do take EW_writer's advice (just this once) and read some of my threads to get an idea of who brings the VERIFIABLE PROOF and who brings the lies.
humble 2 | 264  
Jun 09, 2009 | #27
'Prepare' does not include the mere typing or assembling of papers, nor the mere furnishing of information or research."

Good for us :
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 09, 2009 | #28
"As used in this chapter, 'prepare' means to put into condition for intended use. 'Prepare' does not include the mere typing or assembling of papers, nor the mere furnishing of information or research."

According to... you. :P

The fact remains that The Paper Store, a "legit" American company was forced to give up at least 1 student to authorities because of these laws. That student would most likely never get to finish his degree.
pheelyks  
Jun 09, 2009 | #29
WB, I read a lot more than I post on this forum. I am well aware of your presence in the forum, and while I greatly appreciate the information you present (often accompanied by links verifying your claims), I must respectfully disagree with your tone and way of handling people like EW (and others). EW has admitted to working for foreign companies, so it is easy to guess that he has ulterior motives for his postings, but I feel that a more measured and reasoned response provides both a more effective counter argument and hopefully clearer and better advice for new customers and writers.

EW, before you quote me out of context as if I'm on your side somehow, know that I am almost always in agreement with WB's sentiments, if not their expression. I do not believe you are honest, and you grossly misrepresent the situation regarding foreign companies. I am sure there are many ESL/EFL writers who perform quality work, but the companies themselves don't really care, and as a writer for them you must know this to be true.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 09, 2009 | #30
EW, before you quote me out of context as if I'm on your side somehow, know that I am almost always in agreement with WB's sentiments, if not their expression.

Err... I'm not the "take out of context" guy, that's still WB. :p

but the companies themselves don't really care, and as a writer for them you must know this to be true.

Errr.. where did I ever say that companies cared? Look up my posts on how I describe essaywriters.net so you can read what I think of them as I don't have the time to elaborate now (gotta finish a few CVs before I get some rest). ^_^ See you tomorrow.
pheelyks  
Jun 09, 2009 | #31
You imply that the companies care about the quality of their product in asserting that they provide the same quality of service as legitimate companies. Pretending to be dense does not help to make your case.

Interesting also how you (EW) fail to counter any of the salient points of my last remark.
WritersBeware  
Jun 09, 2009 | #32
I must respectfully disagree with your tone and way of handling people like EW (and others). EW has admitted to working for foreign companies, so it is easy to guess that he has ulterior motives for his postings, but I feel that a more measured and reasoned response provides both a more effective counter argument and hopefully clearer and better advice for new customers and writers.

With all due respect, you have 27 posts. I have nearly 3,000. You can't judge me until you have walked in my shoes. Have you been personally attacked with vulgar insults since 2007? I have been dealing with this crook's lies, deception, and smut-peddling for YEARS. How long would your patience last-after being constantly attacked and defamed-simply for posting the truth in an effort to protect consumers and freelance writers? Your suggestion that I be "nice" will not work. I've tried that approach. He simply gets frustrated and posts more lies. Approach does not matter-he (and those like him) are here for ONE reason-to condone, promote, and advance their fraud, regardless of the tone employed by their moral detractors.

nteresting also how you (EW) fail to counter any of the salient points of my last remark.

Welcome to an average debate with EW_writer. Can you see how just that is already wearing on your patience?

Check my responses to EW_writer's most recent smut:

http://zurnal24.info/forum/9_1092_0.html#msg16066
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 09, 2009 | #33
You imply that the companies care about the quality of their product in asserting that they provide the same quality of service as legitimate companies. Pretending to be dense does not help to make your case.

Now whose taking who out of context? :p My exact statement was that you cannot deny that bestessays does have good writers working for it, writers such as myself who does not scam customers but rather provide them with high quality products.

Interesting also how you (EW) fail to counter any of the salient points of my last remark.

What's there to counter? I agree with you about what you said regarding WB. Basically, the reason why I find so much fun posting against her is because of her attitude. I'm honest with my dealings with clients except that I don't reveal my true identity and location. I don't expect you to believe that and I don't really need you to do so. You didn't really elaborate on what I misrepresented about foreign companies so there's nothing to counter and I did address your last statement.
pheelyks  
Jun 09, 2009 | #34
How many writers work for bestessays? Do you know that the rest of them are as good as you say you are (I'm sure the customers appreciate that you "does not scam" them)? at the risk of repeating myself again, I am sure there are good foreign writers, but there are also many bad ones, and the companies hire them all and pay them the same. THIS IS DISHONEST. Its pretty simple.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 09, 2009 | #35
I'm sure the customers appreciate that you "does not scam" them

Hey.. my bad. I don't really proofread everything that I post here. :P I think we both know that this one error does not overshadow the writing prowess that I have so far demonstrated on this site.

How many writers work for bestessays? Do you know that the rest of them are as good as you say you are

How many writers work for American companies? Has anyone bothered to check if they are all as qualified as their site boasts them to be?

I am sure there are good foreign writers, but there are also many bad ones, and the companies hire them all and pay them the same. THIS IS DISHONEST. Its pretty simple.

True. However for essaywrtiers.net (and bestessays), the bad ones are usually booted out or discouraged almost as soon as they are hired. That's why so many of those losers end up bawling their frustrations on this forum. On the other hand, how selective are American companies in hiring their writers? The fact that they only hire Americans does not mean that everyone they hire is competent. As I understand, the hiring process for many of these companies is also set online so that makes it easy for ANYONE in the U.S. to apply.
pheelyks  
Jun 09, 2009 | #36
for essaywrtiers.net (and bestessays), the bad ones are usually booted out or discouraged almost as soon as they are hired.

Why are they hired in the first place?

As I understand, the hiring process for many of these companies is also set online so that makes it easy for ANYONE in the U.S. to apply.

Yes, anyone may apply. But only qualified writers will be hired. It took months for the US company I work for to hire me after I applied; they are not desperate and can pick the best writers from their applicants/ I got a phone call from UVOCorp the day after I filled out their application, and was an "advanced writer" within a month. This illustrates the difference in how these companies operate.

pheelyks:
I'm sure the customers appreciate that you "does not scam" them

Hey.. my bad. I don't really proofread everything that I post here

This isn't an issue of proofreading; I make plenty of typos myself. This is an error in grammar that an educated native English speaker wouldn't have made in the first place.
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 09, 2009 | #37
This isn't an issue of proofreading; I make plenty of typos myself. This is an error in grammar that an educated native English speaker wouldn't have made in the first place.

Really? Did you see me using the wrong plurality of a verb elsewhere in this forum? ^_^

Why are they hired in the first place?

Heck yeah, why do you think they end up crying their hearts out on this forum after a few weeks?

Yes, anyone may apply. But only qualified writers will be hired.

What do you have to back this up, personal experience? Does this prove that American companies have significantly more qualified writers than foreign companies? Nope.
pheelyks  
Jun 09, 2009 | #38
Still doesn't answer my question--bad writers shouldn't get to step one.

What do you have to back this up, personal experience? Does this prove that American companies have significantly more qualified writers than foreign companies? Nope.

No, nothing really proves anything, and you can't prove a negative at all (its one of the most basic logical fallacies).

Really? Did you see me using the wrong plurality of a verb elsewhere in this forum? ^_^

First of all, whether or not you've made this mistake elsewhere, adding two letter to a word (especially two letters on the opposite side of the keyboard from the letter you should have stopped with) is a highly unusual--one might even hyperbolically say impossible--typo. Its a common grammatical error for non-native speakers, but shows a slip of the mind, not the hand.

Second, though the do/does difference is affected by plurality, that is not the issue in this case. "I" and "he" are both singular, but "I do" something whereas "he does" it. One of those weird idiosyncratic things in English that native speakers tend not to think about and ESL/EFL writers/speakers quite often (understandably) mix up.
WritersBeware  
Jun 09, 2009 | #39
My exact statement was that you cannot deny that bestessays does have good writers working for it

As evidenced in the Chronicle article, decent writers (outside of BURUNDI) leave EssayWriters.net due to horrendously low pay and the inability to live with themselves after having witnessed behind-the-scenes fraud and deception.

I'm honest with my dealings with clients except that I don't reveal my true identity and location.

Note the not-so-clever wording here. This is what disgusts me about EW_writer. Absolutely NOTHING that he types is fully honest and forthright. He's utterly incapable of complete honesty. The lines are blurred. He does not simply "not reveal" his true identity and location. He goes out of his way to outwardly LIE to potential consumers about his credentials. That's both morally wrong AND illegal-end of story. There is not a single excuse that could justify this fraud. I don't care if he hand-delivers a gold bar with each paper.

I'm still waiting for EW_writer to post his usernames at EW and EB so that I can personally critique his work (and his advertised fraud).

I am sure there are good foreign writers, but there are also many bad ones, and the companies hire them all and pay them the same. THIS IS DISHONEST. Its pretty simple.

BINGO!

EW_writer believes that as long as a Ukrainian baker includes ONE fresh donut per dozen, that gives the baker the moral justification-and legal protection-to advertise, "Buy from us because we sell ONLY the freshest, American donuts!"

EW_writer's personal justification for supporting his employer's fraud:

"I'm a good, ESL writer. Despite the FACT that I constitute only about .002% of my fraudulent employer's advertised number of writers (500+) who spit out horribly-written, ESL papers, my employer has the right to claim that ALL (or even MOST) of the company's writers are the "best, native English-speaking, American experts with PhD degrees from American universities" simply because I am on staff."
EW_writer 23 | 2,055 ☆☆☆  
Jun 09, 2009 | #40
Still doesn't answer my question--bad writers shouldn't get to step one.

True.

No, nothing really proves anything, and you can't prove a negative at all (its one of the most basic logical fallacies).

Exactly.

First of all, whether or not you've made this mistake elsewhere, adding two letter to a word (especially two letters on the opposite side of the keyboard from the letter you should have stopped with) is a highly unusual--one might even hyperbolically say impossible--typo. Its a common grammatical error for non-native speakers, but shows a slip of the mind, not the hand.

o.O? I don't think that your clients would appreciate you making these mistakes on your writings as well, right? Even if it's true that my error was because of my having English only as a second language (and I'm not saying that it is), that still does not discount the fact that I do know that I made a mistake and that I could have corrected that mistake easily if I proofread my work which is precisely what I do when I write for my clients. What I find peculiar is how you say that you're not against us competent foreign writers taking our share from the market and yet you continue to associate my mistake with my being a foreign writer. I can easily argue that your mistake of not putting an apostrophe where it should be is also a common ESL mistake.

"I'm a good, ESL writer. Despite the FACT that I constitute only about .002% of my fraudulent employer's advertised number of writers (500+) who spit out horribly-written, ESL papers, my employer has the right to claim that ALL (or even MOST) of the company's writers are the "best, native English-speaking, American experts with PhD degrees from American universities" simply because I am on staff."

Wow... 0.002% huh... see here's where all the evidence showing stops and the tall stories begin. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the ONLY good writer that ew has. Anyone who reads the Chronicle article you provided would know this.



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